The moral development of women

Commenter Silly Girl, who is not in the least silly, has suggested that I post about Kohlberg’s stages of moral development. Kohlberg was a psychologist who devised a theory of the stages through which human morality matures. He devoted years to studying how the moral sense develops in children, in numerous different cultures, and found that it progresses through the same stages everywhere. His work is still highly influential: “In 1999 the DIT was revised as the DIT-2;[24] the test continues to be used in many areas where moral testing is required,[28] such as divinity, politics, and medicine.”

Guess what? Most adult men are at Stage Four. Most women remain at Stage Three throughout their adult lives.

Naturally feminists have done their usual prevarification to get around this. Rather than either admit that women are morally inferior, which humans have known ever since we reared up on our hind legs, or dismiss the theory out of hand, they try to change the rules so that women will come out better on them:

Another criticism is that Kohlberg’s theory is sex-biased, a view that has been thoughtfully expressed by one of Kohlberg’s associates and co-authors, Carol Gilligan (1982). Gilligan observes that Kohlberg’s stages were derived exclusively from interviews with males, and she charges that the stages reflect a decidedly male orientation. For males, advanced moral thought revolves around rules, rights, and abstract principles. The ideal is formal justice, in which all parties evaluate one another’s claims in an impartial manner. This conception of morality, Gilligan argues, fails to capture the distinctly female voice on moral matters.

For women, Gilligan says, morality centers not on rights and rules but on interpersonal relationships and the ethics of compassion and care. The ideal is not impersonal justice but more affiliative ways of living. Women’s morality, in addition, is more contextualized, it is tied to real, ongoing relationships rather than abstract solutions to hypothetical dilemmas.

Because of these sex differences, Gilligan says, men and women frequently score at different stages on Kohlberg’s scale. Women typically score at stage 3, with its focus on interpersonal feelings, whereas men more commonly score at stages 4 and 5, which reflect more abstract conceptions of social organization. Thus, women score lower than men. If, however, Kohlberg’s scale were more sensitive to women’s distinctly interpersonal orientations, it would show that women also continue to develop their thinking beyond stage 3.

Gilligan has made an initial effort to trace women’s moral development. Since she believes that women’s conceptions of care and affiliation are embedded in real-life situations, she has interviewed women facing a personal crisis–the decision to have an abortion. Through these interviews, Gilligan has tried to show that women move from a conventional to a postconventional mode of thinking. That is, they no longer consider their responsibilities in terms of what is conventionally expected, of them but in terms of their own insights into the ethics of care and responsibility.

Source.

This is just the typical female elevation of personal feelings and sentiment above objective values. It’s useful for the half of the species which we need to be taking care of our children, but it’s the worst possible quality for anyone allowed to take part in government or the workplace.

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21 Responses to “The moral development of women”

  1. Carl Says:

    Don't forget the version of the Milgram Experiment that used a puppy to remove any doubt of the victim faking it.

    They found that 20 out of the 26 participants complied to the end. The six that had refused to comply were all male (54% of males were obedient[24]); all 13 of the women obeyed to the end, although many were highly disturbed and some openly wept.[25]

    I guess the fact that they were "disturbed" and "openly wept" means they were "victims"?

    Of course, the more obvious thing that you can take from the Milgram Experiment is that women are more obedient. But if they can't disobey orders when the victim is right in front of them then how can you trust them with anything?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment

  2. Carl Says:

    Don't forget the version of the Milgram Experiment that used a puppy to remove any doubt of the victim faking it.

    They found that 20 out of the 26 participants complied to the end. The six that had refused to comply were all male (54% of males were obedient[24]); all 13 of the women obeyed to the end, although many were highly disturbed and some openly wept.[25]

    I guess the fact that they were "disturbed" and "openly wept" means they were "victims"?

    Of course, the more obvious thing that you can take from the Milgram Experiment is that women are more obedient. But if they can't disobey orders when the victim is right in front of them then how can you trust them with anything?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment

  3. Carl Says:

    Don't forget the version of the Milgram Experiment that used a puppy to remove any doubt of the victim faking it.

    They found that 20 out of the 26 participants complied to the end. The six that had refused to comply were all male (54% of males were obedient[24]); all 13 of the women obeyed to the end, although many were highly disturbed and some openly wept.[25]

    I guess the fact that they were "disturbed" and "openly wept" means they were "victims"?

    Of course, the more obvious thing that you can take from the Milgram Experiment is that women are more obedient. But if they can't disobey orders when the victim is right in front of them then how can you trust them with anything?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment

  4. Derek Says:

    Really interesting stuff. I had an ex who once told me she would turn herself in and face up to the consequences if she committed an unlawful act(something big; Level 4 dev). This sentiments was very much inline with my own thinking on such maters and I grew to greatly trust her.

    Turned out to be a sham though. Later she she made up a bunch false stories sob stories about me mistreating her to gain sympathy and support from female supervisors. She ultimately was promoted to a rather decent job from the sob stories alone.

    She might have known it was a higher form of morality, but she as hell did not practice it. Led to the end of a couple of long standing friendships with women I had called "my friends" for years and later she attempted to have me fired. Fortunately no one believed her beyond my former "friends"(they had a she a Latina girl and can't be lying! thing for her). HR dismissed the allegation with no marks on my record.

  5. Derek Says:

    Really interesting stuff. I had an ex who once told me she would turn herself in and face up to the consequences if she committed an unlawful act(something big; Level 4 dev). This sentiments was very much inline with my own thinking on such maters and I grew to greatly trust her.

    Turned out to be a sham though. Later she she made up a bunch false stories sob stories about me mistreating her to gain sympathy and support from female supervisors. She ultimately was promoted to a rather decent job from the sob stories alone.

    She might have known it was a higher form of morality, but she as hell did not practice it. Led to the end of a couple of long standing friendships with women I had called "my friends" for years and later she attempted to have me fired. Fortunately no one believed her beyond my former "friends"(they had a she a Latina girl and can't be lying! thing for her). HR dismissed the allegation with no marks on my record.

  6. Derek Says:

    Really interesting stuff. I had an ex who once told me she would turn herself in and face up to the consequences if she committed an unlawful act(something big; Level 4 dev). This sentiments was very much inline with my own thinking on such maters and I grew to greatly trust her.

    Turned out to be a sham though. Later she she made up a bunch false stories sob stories about me mistreating her to gain sympathy and support from female supervisors. She ultimately was promoted to a rather decent job from the sob stories alone.

    She might have known it was a higher form of morality, but she as hell did not practice it. Led to the end of a couple of long standing friendships with women I had called "my friends" for years and later she attempted to have me fired. Fortunately no one believed her beyond my former "friends"(they had a she a Latina girl and can't be lying! thing for her). HR dismissed the allegation with no marks on my record.

  7. Female Misogynist Says:

    Carl,

    My gosh. Not that I would have trusted women anyway, but every time my opinion of women is confirmed, I'm appalled anew.

    Derek,

    I'm really glad you escaped without a black mark on your record.

  8. Female Misogynist Says:

    Carl,

    My gosh. Not that I would have trusted women anyway, but every time my opinion of women is confirmed, I'm appalled anew.

    Derek,

    I'm really glad you escaped without a black mark on your record.

  9. Female Misogynist Says:

    Carl,

    My gosh. Not that I would have trusted women anyway, but every time my opinion of women is confirmed, I'm appalled anew.

    Derek,

    I'm really glad you escaped without a black mark on your record.

  10. silly girl Says:

    I looked up that Milgram experiment. I literally got sick to my stomach. A while back I read a newspaper column by Randy Cohen who wrote The Good, the Bad, and the Difference. Anyway, he made the distinction in ethical requirements of obedience. Sure we should obey laws and even rules, but certainly we still need to use a higher standard. His example was not bringing your own candy into a theater. While it is fine to respect this request, it does not rise to the level of moral obligation. In that Milgram experiment, there was no moral obligation to obey some researcher who says to push a button to hurt a puppy just to see if these sheeple would actually do it. Sure if you take money to do a job, you should do it in general, but there are always ways to break a contract. If you don't perform, you don't get paid since you broke the contract. We all know that participating in these projects doesn't pay one enough to sell his soul, so four crying out loud, it is sickening to think people are that weak minded. Was the researcher waving his hand and using Jedi mind tricks?

    As for the discovery that women perform so poorly on the Moral Development scale, I have heard it suggested that it could be that in some cases women do not suffer as many consequences for bad decisions growing up because they are more obedient and therefore never go through the trials that lead to better character. It is an interesting idea. I have seen girls, who were very compliant growing up, become quite nasty as adults. I have also seen boys who were wholly terrors as kids grow up to be very fine men. So I think there could be something about the female compliant tendency actually being a hinderance to full moral development. Of course I could just be saying this to make myself feel better for all those trips to the principal's office from elementary through high school and for the swats I got in middle school.

  11. silly girl Says:

    I looked up that Milgram experiment. I literally got sick to my stomach. A while back I read a newspaper column by Randy Cohen who wrote The Good, the Bad, and the Difference. Anyway, he made the distinction in ethical requirements of obedience. Sure we should obey laws and even rules, but certainly we still need to use a higher standard. His example was not bringing your own candy into a theater. While it is fine to respect this request, it does not rise to the level of moral obligation. In that Milgram experiment, there was no moral obligation to obey some researcher who says to push a button to hurt a puppy just to see if these sheeple would actually do it. Sure if you take money to do a job, you should do it in general, but there are always ways to break a contract. If you don't perform, you don't get paid since you broke the contract. We all know that participating in these projects doesn't pay one enough to sell his soul, so four crying out loud, it is sickening to think people are that weak minded. Was the researcher waving his hand and using Jedi mind tricks?

    As for the discovery that women perform so poorly on the Moral Development scale, I have heard it suggested that it could be that in some cases women do not suffer as many consequences for bad decisions growing up because they are more obedient and therefore never go through the trials that lead to better character. It is an interesting idea. I have seen girls, who were very compliant growing up, become quite nasty as adults. I have also seen boys who were wholly terrors as kids grow up to be very fine men. So I think there could be something about the female compliant tendency actually being a hinderance to full moral development. Of course I could just be saying this to make myself feel better for all those trips to the principal's office from elementary through high school and for the swats I got in middle school.

  12. silly girl Says:

    I looked up that Milgram experiment. I literally got sick to my stomach. A while back I read a newspaper column by Randy Cohen who wrote The Good, the Bad, and the Difference. Anyway, he made the distinction in ethical requirements of obedience. Sure we should obey laws and even rules, but certainly we still need to use a higher standard. His example was not bringing your own candy into a theater. While it is fine to respect this request, it does not rise to the level of moral obligation. In that Milgram experiment, there was no moral obligation to obey some researcher who says to push a button to hurt a puppy just to see if these sheeple would actually do it. Sure if you take money to do a job, you should do it in general, but there are always ways to break a contract. If you don't perform, you don't get paid since you broke the contract. We all know that participating in these projects doesn't pay one enough to sell his soul, so four crying out loud, it is sickening to think people are that weak minded. Was the researcher waving his hand and using Jedi mind tricks?

    As for the discovery that women perform so poorly on the Moral Development scale, I have heard it suggested that it could be that in some cases women do not suffer as many consequences for bad decisions growing up because they are more obedient and therefore never go through the trials that lead to better character. It is an interesting idea. I have seen girls, who were very compliant growing up, become quite nasty as adults. I have also seen boys who were wholly terrors as kids grow up to be very fine men. So I think there could be something about the female compliant tendency actually being a hinderance to full moral development. Of course I could just be saying this to make myself feel better for all those trips to the principal's office from elementary through high school and for the swats I got in middle school.

  13. The_Editrix Says:

    That is highly disturbing. Of course, I knew of the Milgram Experiment, but not of the male/female differences.

    This may be interesting in the context we are discussing here. It's about a fateful period in German history:

    Of the historical memoranda of Generaloberst Ludwig Beck, this one has, for obvious reasons, become most famous:

    All honest and serious German men in responsible national positions will have to see it as their mission and duty to use all possible means and methods to avert war with Czechoslovakia, regardless of the consequences. Such a war must inevitably lead to a world war that would mean the end of Germany.

    The highest ranking officers of the Wehrmacht are most befitting and capable for this task since the Wehrmacht is the operational instrument of power for the national leadership in conducting a war.

    At stake here are ultimate decisions for the survival of the nation. History will burden these leaders with a blood-debt if they do not act according to their professional and political knowledge and their conscience.

    Their soldierly duty to obey has its limits when their knowledge, their conscience, and their responsibility forbid carrying out an order.
    […]
    There is a lack of greatness and recognition of duty when at such a time a high-ranking soldier regards his duties and tasks only within the limited framework of his military assignments without awareness that his highest responsibility is to the nation as whole.

    Extraordinary times require extraordinary actions!

    Who was Generaloberst Ludwig Beck?

    Ludwig Beck was born in 1880. Following his family's tradition, he begun his his army service in an artillery regiment in 1898. After World War I he became a member of the scrap Reichswehr and held various field- and staff assignments. While he saw, like many other career soldiers, the Nazis' rise to power first as an opportunity to reverse the consequences of the Versailles treaty, Hitler having his homosexual former buddies murdered in summer 1934 (the so-called "Röhm Putsch") triggered off a change of mind in Beck.

    As Army Chief of Staff from 1935, he saw his role as an independent adviser to the political leaders. With this view, however, he stood in sharp contrast to those officers who, from an early stage, did not just permit themselves to be used as Hitler's henchmen, but acted as willing executioners. In memoranda, lectures and studies Beck pointed out the risk of war and its consequences for Germany.

    His attempts at rallying support among army commanders failed. Beck remained unswerving in his decision to resign not to be involved in Hitler's military dillettantism, which was driving the nation into war against Czechoslovakia. Beck remained unimpressed by Hitler's early political and military successes. He had long been aware that the war triggered by the attack on Poland in September 1939 would inevitably result in Germany's total destruction.

    Apart from the possible external threat, he was deeply distraught about the moral rotting inside Germany. From the winter of 1939 on, Beck was the centre of the military resistance against the Nazis and the groups related to it. Beck had been designed to become head of state had the coup of July 20 succeeded. Had! After an unsuccessful suicide attempt General Beck was shot late in the evening of July 20, 1944.

    And now imagine a "generalette" here and shudder.

  14. The_Editrix Says:

    That is highly disturbing. Of course, I knew of the Milgram Experiment, but not of the male/female differences.

    This may be interesting in the context we are discussing here. It's about a fateful period in German history:

    Of the historical memoranda of Generaloberst Ludwig Beck, this one has, for obvious reasons, become most famous:

    All honest and serious German men in responsible national positions will have to see it as their mission and duty to use all possible means and methods to avert war with Czechoslovakia, regardless of the consequences. Such a war must inevitably lead to a world war that would mean the end of Germany.

    The highest ranking officers of the Wehrmacht are most befitting and capable for this task since the Wehrmacht is the operational instrument of power for the national leadership in conducting a war.

    At stake here are ultimate decisions for the survival of the nation. History will burden these leaders with a blood-debt if they do not act according to their professional and political knowledge and their conscience.

    Their soldierly duty to obey has its limits when their knowledge, their conscience, and their responsibility forbid carrying out an order.
    […]
    There is a lack of greatness and recognition of duty when at such a time a high-ranking soldier regards his duties and tasks only within the limited framework of his military assignments without awareness that his highest responsibility is to the nation as whole.

    Extraordinary times require extraordinary actions!

    Who was Generaloberst Ludwig Beck?

    Ludwig Beck was born in 1880. Following his family's tradition, he begun his his army service in an artillery regiment in 1898. After World War I he became a member of the scrap Reichswehr and held various field- and staff assignments. While he saw, like many other career soldiers, the Nazis' rise to power first as an opportunity to reverse the consequences of the Versailles treaty, Hitler having his homosexual former buddies murdered in summer 1934 (the so-called "Röhm Putsch") triggered off a change of mind in Beck.

    As Army Chief of Staff from 1935, he saw his role as an independent adviser to the political leaders. With this view, however, he stood in sharp contrast to those officers who, from an early stage, did not just permit themselves to be used as Hitler's henchmen, but acted as willing executioners. In memoranda, lectures and studies Beck pointed out the risk of war and its consequences for Germany.

    His attempts at rallying support among army commanders failed. Beck remained unswerving in his decision to resign not to be involved in Hitler's military dillettantism, which was driving the nation into war against Czechoslovakia. Beck remained unimpressed by Hitler's early political and military successes. He had long been aware that the war triggered by the attack on Poland in September 1939 would inevitably result in Germany's total destruction.

    Apart from the possible external threat, he was deeply distraught about the moral rotting inside Germany. From the winter of 1939 on, Beck was the centre of the military resistance against the Nazis and the groups related to it. Beck had been designed to become head of state had the coup of July 20 succeeded. Had! After an unsuccessful suicide attempt General Beck was shot late in the evening of July 20, 1944.

    And now imagine a "generalette" here and shudder.

  15. The_Editrix Says:

    That is highly disturbing. Of course, I knew of the Milgram Experiment, but not of the male/female differences.

    This may be interesting in the context we are discussing here. It's about a fateful period in German history:

    Of the historical memoranda of Generaloberst Ludwig Beck, this one has, for obvious reasons, become most famous:

    All honest and serious German men in responsible national positions will have to see it as their mission and duty to use all possible means and methods to avert war with Czechoslovakia, regardless of the consequences. Such a war must inevitably lead to a world war that would mean the end of Germany.

    The highest ranking officers of the Wehrmacht are most befitting and capable for this task since the Wehrmacht is the operational instrument of power for the national leadership in conducting a war.

    At stake here are ultimate decisions for the survival of the nation. History will burden these leaders with a blood-debt if they do not act according to their professional and political knowledge and their conscience.

    Their soldierly duty to obey has its limits when their knowledge, their conscience, and their responsibility forbid carrying out an order.
    […]
    There is a lack of greatness and recognition of duty when at such a time a high-ranking soldier regards his duties and tasks only within the limited framework of his military assignments without awareness that his highest responsibility is to the nation as whole.

    Extraordinary times require extraordinary actions!

    Who was Generaloberst Ludwig Beck?

    Ludwig Beck was born in 1880. Following his family's tradition, he begun his his army service in an artillery regiment in 1898. After World War I he became a member of the scrap Reichswehr and held various field- and staff assignments. While he saw, like many other career soldiers, the Nazis' rise to power first as an opportunity to reverse the consequences of the Versailles treaty, Hitler having his homosexual former buddies murdered in summer 1934 (the so-called "Röhm Putsch") triggered off a change of mind in Beck.

    As Army Chief of Staff from 1935, he saw his role as an independent adviser to the political leaders. With this view, however, he stood in sharp contrast to those officers who, from an early stage, did not just permit themselves to be used as Hitler's henchmen, but acted as willing executioners. In memoranda, lectures and studies Beck pointed out the risk of war and its consequences for Germany.

    His attempts at rallying support among army commanders failed. Beck remained unswerving in his decision to resign not to be involved in Hitler's military dillettantism, which was driving the nation into war against Czechoslovakia. Beck remained unimpressed by Hitler's early political and military successes. He had long been aware that the war triggered by the attack on Poland in September 1939 would inevitably result in Germany's total destruction.

    Apart from the possible external threat, he was deeply distraught about the moral rotting inside Germany. From the winter of 1939 on, Beck was the centre of the military resistance against the Nazis and the groups related to it. Beck had been designed to become head of state had the coup of July 20 succeeded. Had! After an unsuccessful suicide attempt General Beck was shot late in the evening of July 20, 1944.

    And now imagine a "generalette" here and shudder.

  16. Female Misogynist Says:

    Editrix,

    You might search my blog for the word "Germany". There are a few articles I linked that may interest you, though some are things that could have happened in any Western nation.

    However, this post might, if I gauge your interests correctly, particularly interest you.

  17. Female Misogynist Says:

    Editrix,

    You might search my blog for the word "Germany". There are a few articles I linked that may interest you, though some are things that could have happened in any Western nation.

    However, this post might, if I gauge your interests correctly, particularly interest you.

  18. Female Misogynist Says:

    Editrix,

    You might search my blog for the word "Germany". There are a few articles I linked that may interest you, though some are things that could have happened in any Western nation.

    However, this post might, if I gauge your interests correctly, particularly interest you.

  19. The_Editrix Says:

    FM, thanks for that excellent and thought-provoking information. I've replied to it here.

  20. The_Editrix Says:

    FM, thanks for that excellent and thought-provoking information. I've replied to it here.

  21. The_Editrix Says:

    FM, thanks for that excellent and thought-provoking information. I've replied to it here.

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